#17 | Sena Wheeler: Insider Secrets to Avoid ‘Fishy’ Fish + Black Cod Recipe
In this week’s episode, I talk with Sena Wheeler of Sena Sea Wild Alaskan Fish. Sena shares with us her story of embracing her heritage as a fisherman’s wife and how that lineage is passed on through the women in her family. Learn about how fishing boats work in Alaska, why Alaskan fish is so delicious, exactly what are the Omega-3’s people talk about and how closely Alaskan fisherman work in alignment with nature’s cycles. Sena tells us her story of building a business that supports their entire small scale fishing community beyond just catching the fish and their commitment to getting the absolute best quality fish to their customer’s doorsteps. We also talk about the ways that Alaska supports indigenous and sustenance fishing alongside commercial fishing to caretake the waterways and set up for the long-term future of fishing. Along the way, we talk about what makes fish ‘fishy’, how to best pick fish at the grocery store, great cooking techniques (especially if you’re intimidated by cooking fish) and Sena shares her top 4 Reasons to Eat Wild Caught Seafood. I found this conversation fascinating and informative, especially since I’m still a ‘hesitant’ fish eater and cooker at times! Learn Sena’s quick and easy No-Fail Black Cod Recipe which is perfect for those last minute dinner guests or family meal.
The Recipe starts at: 1:09:01
Link to Sena’s Blog Post of her recipe: Ginger Black Cod with Roasted Vegetables
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Sena Sea Website
Sena Sea’s Social Media Links: Facebook and Instagram
Sena’s Recipe Blog
Cook’s Illustrated Magazine
Sena’s Four Reasons to Eat Wild Seafood
Get Business Coaching from Missy at: WomenInFood.net/WorkwithMissy
Become a member of the Women In Food Community at: WomenInFood.Net/Community
Missy’s Farm Website: CrownHillFarm.com
Missy’s Business Coaching Website: SpiritBizPeople.com
Ginger Black Cod Recipe
INGREDIENTS:
4 Sena Sea Black Cod portions
1 inch Ginger root, shredded or mashed
2 Garlic cloves, mashed or crushed
2 Tbs Honey (optional)
1/4 cup soy sauce
1 Tbs sea salt (to taste)
1 Tbs sesame seed (optional)
Roasted Vegetables
1/2 lb potatoes, cut into wedges
1 Sweet potato, cut into wedges
1 Onion, cut into wedges
1/2 lb brussel sprouts, cleaned and cut in half
1/4 head of Cauliflower
1/4 head of broccoli4 Garlic cloves, slices
2 Tbs Olive Oil
1 Tbs Apple Cider Vinegar
1 tsp Rosemary
1 tsp Thyme
1 tsp salt (to taste)
1 tsp pepper (to taste)
METHOD:
Preheat oven to 475 degrees.
Defrost Black Cod portions and rinse in cold water. Place in a glass baking dish, skin side down and pat dry.
Sprinkle salt on fish and let it stand while you mix the marinade.
For marinade, combine ginger, garlic, honey and soy sauce. I use my high powered blender, but you can whisk by hand as well.
Pour marinade over fish and completely coat. Flip fish over so it is skin side up, and marinate for about 20 min.
While the fish is marinating, prepare the veggies. Cut all the veggies to a similar size and shape so they cook evenly - I like to use long narrow wedges. Place cut veggies in a bowl and add remainder of ingredients, stirring well to coat.
Cover a baking sheet with parchment paper, and evenly spread out the veggies.
Drain marinate from the fish, and flip back over so the skin side is down again. Sprinkle with sesame seeds (optional).
Place veggies and fish in the oven together. Veggies on a lower rack, and Black Cod above. Bake at 475 degrees for 25 to 30 min.
Raise Black Cod to the top rack, and broil on high for about 2 min, until the top is nice and brown.
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0:00:04.0 S1: Welcome to another episode of women in food. I'm your hostess, Missy Singer DuMars. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things food, business, and the feminine. Each episode, I invite you to sit down with me in my interview guest as we dive into this intersection to spark your food curiosity, share a favorite recipe and give you some fun food explorations along the way. I'm inspired by these women farmers, shafts, bakers, cooks, writers and food makers who all bring their passion for beauty, Maureen community, pleasure connection and deep care to others through food. These are women who advocate and take action towards increased food awareness for themselves, their families and their neighborhoods. Before I introduce today's guest, I have one request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a rating and review, it's a simple act. That helps us a ton. Thank you so much. So today, I'm excited to introduce to you Sena Wheeler. Sena comes from a long line of fishing family, going all the way back to Norwegian roots, Shane husband-owned sense, committed to providing high quality sustainable fish from Alaska snare up around fishing, and shares with us the women's fishing lineage of her family.
0:01:19.1 S1: She went on to get a Master's degree in Nutrition and Food Science was a focus on a mega this in fish. In addition to their fishing and seafood sales business, she and her husband built a processing facility, thus creating a community of small scale sustainable fishing and helping to bring quality nutritious fish across the country. I love how she's taken her lineage and expanded it to support multiple small-scale fishing folks to build their businesses and better reach customers, this means she also gives folks across the US access to gorgeous food shipped right to their door. We'll be talking about growing up in a fishing family, best ways to cook fish yet wild seafood and how she's built local economy through collaboration. So Sena, welcome to women in food. I'm so honored to have you join us and happy to have you here today.
0:02:07.1 S2: Thank you, it's great to be here.
0:02:09.0 S1: And I have to admit, when we started thinking about this episode, I thought it was kind of funny because... And I think I told you this when we met earlier, it was a long time before I got into eating fish and sea food at all, I was like A staunch non-fish liger for many, many years. Most of my life, and here we are talking about all things fish.
0:02:30.7 S2: Well, you're not the first to admit that one talking to me, but
0:02:38.1 S1: We have a lot of converts in our week.
0:02:42.4 S2: And one of the keys... I won't dive in, but one of the keys is high quality fish, and it makes a difference.
0:02:49.7 S1: That is certainly true. And just to share my story, I lived in Hawaii for a period of time, which is an amazing place for fresh fish, absolutely didn't eat fish at that time, and one of my last days there... We went out for sushi and I said, Okay, I'll try fish. So, and I loved it, and for a long time, I only would eat rois, not even cooked fish, and I still am sometimes squarely about cooked fish. It depends on my mood. But fresh Raffi, good quality, fresh office. There's nothing like it in the world to me.
0:03:24.7 S2: Absolutely, it's such a pure clean protein, it really... I know that radish makes some people feel weird, but it is just so clean tasting, so... I
0:03:36.0 S1: Agree.
0:03:36.7 S2: I think it's great, always, but I'm biased. I grew up eating great fish, and I think that that's a huge difference is... I grew up on the West Coast in the Pacific Northwest, and where fish is really common, and I'm in a fishing falling, we ate a lot of fish, but we ate good fish, and it wasn't until I started working and met people from the Midwest and people that were going like, Oh, fish is fishy. And I went, Okay. Yeah, what's the problem? I just didn't understand that there was a bad fit, I'd never eaten farm fish in my life, I just didn't know there was poor quality fish out there and that it was fishy, what that was. So it was really eye-opening to understand, Oh, there's this whole other world of fish and people that grew up with that, I have this really different connotation, so it is really interesting.
0:04:32.4 S1: Yeah, it's funny you say that 'cause I have that experience with vegetable is if that's a part of our... With vegetables, people tell me, Oh, I don't like green beans, or I don't like Brussels bone, and I always say try really high quality of this vegetable prepared well, it's both the quality and the preparation cooked properly, and then if you still don't like it, fine. I'm okay with that. I won't make it for you ever again, but please try good quality cooked properly from a professional or someone who knows how to cook it well, 'cause at least with vegetables, a lot of people's experience or frozen or canned or over-cooked by their mother or whatever. Sorry to all others in the world, or vegetables, but it's like, don't write off an entire food group until you've had a really high quality version of it. I could not agree more.
0:05:18.3 S2: Growing up, I made lots of bristles broads to my kids love them, and I most him and I never called them restless because there's this... Like you hear it on cartoons, there's this negative stigma stigma in the world, and I just call them baby cabbages caves... I love it. I am, I feel like that's not coming and so because I was just like, they watch all this stuff that tells them they're, Oh, you can't like you know these vegetables. So you can't like manage and it's just... It's silly to me.
0:05:49.9 S1: Right, so as you've alluded to, and my interrelated to fish and fishing goes very deep in your family, I'm very far back. Tells... Tell me a little bit about that. Oh.
0:06:02.1 S2: Yes. Well, when we started our business, I was saying three generations, 'cause that's just what I could see. My husband, my dad and my grandpa were fisherman, and I've done just barely scratched a surface and realized, Okay, it's way further than that. My grandpa immigrated from Norway and he learned to fish in Norway, and I read this really great by of my great-grandfather who learned to fish from his father, and it just goes all the way back through our Norwegian heritage, so down to... My husband is the fisherman really in our family at this point, so it's really a thing of pride for us, but growing up, my dad was a fisherman and my uncles were freshman, my grandfather's fisherman, we went to the boats all the time, If you're dressed up and you're going to Christmas, you stop in at the boat, I don't know why, but we always did because the... But what was near my grandparents, and I think it has to do with my grandpa would probably say, Hey, how is the boat looking and if he hadn't checked in that day, then you wouldn't be able to answer... Right, right, right.
0:07:17.0 S1: I think that's the nature of having a family business. I always say my bio, I grew up around a family business, and I would be the fourth or fifth generation in my family's business, if I went into it and I just grew up like holiday tables was business conversations. How's the business doing and did it or whatever, through the people, the family members that were working in the business, is part of this, just a natural part of the little...
0:07:43.3 S2: Yeah, yes, very, you mentioned grandfather's, husbands, dads and uncles, but this is women in food, and in fact, the lineage, the blood blenny edge goes through the women in your family... Right. Yeah, I love it. It's a really unexpected part of our story, I think that the blood line... So my dad and my husband are both son and laws, so the lineage is me a Fisherman's Wife, my mom was a fisherman's wife, my grandma was a Fisherman's Wife, and I looked at it like that going back through the generations, and so we've basically just... When my mom married my dad, he went out fishing with my grandpa and ended up in the business, and then the same with me in fishing, it's called getting a chance, it's not called getting a job, people walk the docs or you go out on a boat. You're giving someone a chance, so my dad was given a chance on my grandpa's boat said he hated it, would never do it again, and then ended up a career
0:08:48.6 S1: Fishermen.
0:08:50.8 S2: Do you know what changed that for him... What did that change? Yeah, he tried to DES job in between
0:08:58.6 S1: That could do it, and
0:08:59.8 S2: He was like, Yeah, you know what, I think I'll try that fishing thing again.
0:09:06.4 S1: Right, right. And I love that because people assume that it's your husband's side of the family, but actually the traditions and lineage goes through your side of the family, and it's a multiple generations of fishing wives and then the men married into the life.
0:09:25.1 S2: Right, we just go... Apparently, we just go find someone and train them up on how to fish, and I think really comfortably into my role as a Fisherman's Wife, and I feel really proud of that lineage, but also I gain a lot of strength. I think there's times with three kids and husband is gone, it was like, Oh, the hardest time when I was pregnant, and then the next year it was like, No, wait. It's way harder when I have a toddler, and then the next year it was like, wait, it's way harder when I'm pregnant with the toddler, there was years there where every year felt like another new challenge and I really gathered a lot of strength knowing my mom did the same thing, my grandma did this same thing, my mom had three kids, my grandma had four kids, this has been done. And it's in me and I'm capable of doing this. And that's a great well of strength, because if you feel like you're the only one in the world has ever done it is doing it. That's the only place I think
0:10:32.9 S1: The driver have conversations with your grandmother and or your mom about that piece, about the passing down of being a Fisherman's Wife or wisdom of that.
0:10:45.2 S2: I think that it really took until when my grandma passed, I actually gave a speech at her service, and that's when I really did some deep thinking and realize it's like I had never even put it together until that moment, and so I have that speech somewhere in a drawer, and I was really proud to give it and just realized that lineage that's been carried through, so that was really a really powerful moment for me, and it was all of my family there to kind of bear witness and go, Oh, right. This is something you know.
0:11:27.6 S1: Yeah, and what you've shared with me and I'd love for to share again, is that being a Fisherman's Wife is still very deep involvement in the fishing life. Oh, absolutely. And sometimes you do things that you don't know why or how it fits together, but I used to go out... I fished on my dad's pool, I have two other sisters, so three daughters.
0:11:52.3 S2: I'm the only one that went out on my dad's boat and fished with him in Alaska. So in the summers when I was in high school, in college, I would fly up to Alaska and got on the boat. Would do a fishing trip, bring the boat down, it was really quality time and making some money and misunderstanding, and that's been such a huge thing for being a Fisherman's Wife, as I have an understanding... I know the rhythm, I've seen it when my dad was getting ready to get the boat going, I know the poll when it's spring time and time to go, and time to fish and that they hate to go. But it's a really exciting time to it, there's a little bit of that gold rush fever, you don't know what's out there and how the season is gonna go, so... I just feel so grateful for that, growing up in a fishing family I knew full well when I was getting into, and I feel better prepared for in supporting and being a part of it, so we really raise our kids in the same fashion in even more so we have them out on the boat.
0:12:56.3 S2: Every summer we go up to Alaska, we spend two to eight weeks depending on the kids and out on the boat, living on the boat, living the life, and they're really... Our kids are really involved, and that's one thing that we talk about a lot is it's not just that rich as fishermen were a fishing family, and we all participate in that lifestyle.
0:13:18.8 S1: Can you give us... 'cause I think most people don't really have a sense of what a day in the life out on a commercial fishing boat is like a small scale commercial fishing, but like Give us just a glimpse of what that's like or a feel for...
0:13:33.2 S2: Yeah, we've taken great pride in bringing our kids out, which not everybody gets to do because it differs with the size of the boat and all of that, I just really quickly... There's different boats, different fisheries when my family was long liner, so they... Long line for halibut black cod.
0:13:54.3 S1: What can you say what that means? A
0:13:56.1 S2: Long line is, it's an ocean boat, so you're out in the ocean and it's bigger, is about a five-man crew, and it's literally one long line on the bottom of the ocean, so they put it down, run it out, and every three feet is a hook. And it's a very targeted method of catching, so you don't have... Not just dragging the bottom, you have hooks, you're targeting with the size and you're targeting with the bat, the sizes of the hook, and mostly where they put that line, so the ocean depth, but the topography, so they're looking for these thoughts that they like to hang out but anyways, it's a long line that's like maybe three miles long on the bottom the ocean.
0:14:40.7 S1: And one boat can drag a three-mile long line, they
0:14:43.4 S2: Don't drag it, they lay it down, and then they'll let it soak for maybe six hours or so and come back to the other end and pick it up, and then they're using... The year we'll look a little bit like if. People always wanna compare to Deadliest Catch, so the gear will look a little bit like that in terms of its hydraulic, you're pulling up, and it's this one long line coming up and every three feet is a hook, so there's a guy pulling the fish off and then they're re-baiting that, so anyways, I'm sorry, I could... I don't know. No, that's totally cool, 'cause I think people don't really...
0:15:18.2 S1: You don't really know anything about fishing at that kind of scale, so... I think it's totally fascinating. Do not apologize. Totally cut. It's a picture in my head and that alone and I all have a completely new appreciation of how fish is caught.
0:15:32.4 S2: So that Taliban and black cod, those are white fish, Alaskan, and they're fishing in the Gulf, they're fishing where you don't see land, you're in the ocean swell, when my grandfather went out, it was 30-day trips on my dad went out, it was weak trips down several weeks down to one week, and then was the derby style got to be these really quick openers, but basically the size of the trip has really shrunk down and that's for the quality of the fish, and now my husband will go out for maybe three days and they'll bring it back, and that keeps the quality really high, so when my grandpa went out for 30 days, you could just imagine the bottom of the boat they just check the fish, so why are you out? A lot was changed, the logo has changed in that, so it's all about high quality catch now, but that's long lining bigger boats, and then salmon is always done at the mouth of a river, so when you think of a fisherman you're like a pull... A guy on the river, he's fishing in the river, but the commercial fishermen are always in the mouth of the river, so it's really where the ocean meets the river, and that's called the Delta.
0:16:53.9 S2: And when you're talking about Sam, and they're often talked about by the river they're caught at, and that's because every salmon is the most complex, because there's King Sacha coho, there's species, but then those species are different based on the river they spawn from and that those fish are born in that river and they will always return to that same river, so the copper river, people have usually heard of the copper river because it's the best salmon, and the reason is the cop river is very cold. It's very swift. It's very well, cold Swift, what's the other word? From rapid... And they put on a lot of extra fat to go and spun back into that river, so the copper River is known as the best because of that high fat content.
0:17:47.6 S1: Okay, cool. So again, I'm going down a rabbit hole. I see
0:17:51.3 S2: Shoppers, to mean shoppers out there, try out for a copper river salmon, obviously, you'll be able to order it from sensor and that link will be in the show notes or... Sure.
0:18:03.0 S1: But if you want good fatty, delicious salmon... Look for copper rivers. Amen.
0:18:07.9 S2: Absolutely, and when you imagine those boats... So some people imagine the fisherman in the river or nets all the way across the river is nothing like that. We're talking in Alaska, the Copperbelt is the size of Rhode Island. I've heard, which I can't even imagine, I've never been to Rhode Island. It's 75 miles of waterways, sandbars islands, and so the fisherman are where the ocean is meeting all these different waterways, deltas and inlet, it's not just one big open river. And so for Sam, they're fishing. They're fishing like that, they're maybe up towards the beach or they could be a mile off of the beach, and they use... What we use for that is a Gillette, and so they have a net that goes off the front of the... We call them bookies, goes off their friend about they might go right up to the beach where the waves crash on the beach, and then go and they'll take the boat and motor backwards, they're small boats. They're one or two guys, so there will be a captain and then sometimes there's a crew, a lot of times, maybe a son or something like that, and then...
0:19:28.4 S2: And sometimes not is just single guys out on the boat and gals, there's late women Freeman as well, and they go and reverse and they just leave this guilt one long line, and so they are targeting for species based on the size of the netting, and then even down to the colors of the netting, and then where they're laying out and then there's a lot of consideration with tides and water motion, they're just watching everything. It's really incredible to watch all the information that they're picking up from their surroundings and then they're communicating to each other too.
0:20:08.4 S1: Yeah, it sounds to me like fishing is similar to farming in that there's so many other skills involved that you don't even realize you... Times I'm a plumber, sometimes I'm a farmer, sometimes I'm a botanist, sometimes I'm a weather person, time soil scientist, sometimes I'm a... Sometimes I'm a nutrition is sometimes an electrician, a carpenter. There's so many different sets of skills that you need for different parts, it sounds like fishing is the same thing... Absolutely. In weather and tides and flows, and animal science at all, these are things I...
0:20:43.5 S2: Absolutely. And it's so cyclical. It's so connected. So it's so cyclical. I think that people often think of farmers is very connected with the seasons and the ears and nature, and I think that people don't realize how connected fishermen are, the seasonality, the weather patterns, like we just talked about, the tides is incredible, which often says He's... I said, What are you doing? He's looking and having them talk me through it and he's looking for... He says he's looking for the color change, and it's this color change in the water and you'll see it come and it's the tide change, and just all those things. I wouldn't have even seen it, I don't want to know it. But it is really in-depth, and then I've often sat around with fishermen and they all start talking about the birds, and they're really big notices of the nature around and the birds... Rich will talk often about this even the start of this season, he was really optimistic, and I love to talk Fremantle, to talk about how it's gonna be a great season, but Rich is... Reasoning was down to like, Oh, I've seen a lot of birds coming in or this type, and they really are noticing a lot of detail of the nature around them, so it's really pretty cool
0:22:10.3 S1: Now, it's fishing besides the tides as fishing affected by faces of the moon.
0:22:17.3 S2: Well, the tides, which would be connected to the phases of the moon, and then other than that, I think just the tides in terms of the moon, but a lot of other things, water temperature, whether how much it has rained and that kind of thing.
0:22:32.4 S1: Yeah, 'cause farming you... I think it's called phrenology is about gardening according to the phases of the moon, and there's certain phases where you wanna plant the seeds versus transplant and already started plant versus harvest based on the Polo water.
0:22:50.4 S2: That is really cool. Yeah. Oh, I bet it would be really interesting to look at for fishing too, just because sometimes official dusty can tell the direction they're coming in the net that the fish are milling around at the base of the river. So they're waiting for something.
0:23:08.3 S1: Yeah, and besides the tides, I know with my animals, the faces of the moon certainly affect their behaviors, so I'd be curious about the fish as well. That'd be really interesting. For sure. That'll be our next science kerosene. Three, you deep dive into the science side of some of this, you got a Master's in Nutrition and Food Science. Yeah.
0:23:35.4 S2: I started with nutrition. My mom also ran a health food store, so we ate fish, but we also very healthy growing up, so nutrition was a really natural fit for me, and then I went into the food science side because I love the Applied Science ness of Food Science. It's really fun. You have a theory, you take it off, you try it, you taste it, and you know, I just love that I
0:24:05.5 S1: Have to ask, Are you a reader of Cooks Illustrated
0:24:09.9 S2: Catania? Not, but my friend is. And she's always like, You need to read this
0:24:17.0 S1: To A... That's what I love about it, 'cause they'll take a recipe and take it apart and try it 10 different ways and talk about the science of why it did and didn't work, and what makes this Carmelite that way or this way, or all these things. And then they give you the final recipe at the end that's like, Okay, here's our premium version of this recipe, having done all those tests, it sounds totally like something you would love reading...
0:24:37.9 S2: I would love reading that, and that's what I do, that's how I cook, I just love kind of dialing into that, how do you make this the best...
0:24:46.5 S1: Do you get called for taking apart your dishes after... Who'll sit down to dinner with my whole crew here and I'll be like, Well, I could have looked this this way, I could feel like it's amazing. Stop critiquing it. I'm looking at how to improve it, and I'm always looking at how to prove it, and my kids know the number one rule is only positive talk at
0:25:09.1 S2: The table, so I'm always just how to make it better. Right, absolutely. Totally. Cool, so food science, and then you had a short stint working in food... Not in seafood and fish. Yeah, when I got my master's, and I was a seafood lab, like you talked about, looking at the omega 3s and whatnot, and that just felt so natural to me, I was working on West Coast albicans at the time and just loved it, but I went into just regular old food science, I worked for a national food company in the R and D lab, and I loved it. It wasn't fish, which was the only odd for me just because so much was fish, but that was so unplanned, but I just love the environment of being in a food lab, and I was kind of... Whereas I kind of viewed it that a lot of the recipe developers were the artists and I was the scientist, I was, how do you measure it, how do you make sure you're gonna make it it consistent in all of that, and really a lot of correlation back to, Well, what? If it's good, what makes it good? Okay, how do you do that again?
0:26:24.2 S1: Right. And so what led you to return to the family... Family life and family business.
0:26:30.6 S2: Well, which was commercial fishing on through that time, so I was working full-time and sometimes part-time, and we had our two kids during that time, we would just on the side what most fishermen do when they come home in the fall, which would bring fish home and we would spend weeks delivering fish, so if you're a fisherman, you probably get this with farming, I don't know, but if you're a fisherman, you're friends and family expect some fish. Yeah, I just shot a very large box of pre all the way to Florida to my mom, so... Yes, yes. And it becomes a big part of what you do and how you do it. And I know because we put a lot of fish for fishermen for the... It's called their... Oh, I just lost the word. I think it's home pack is what it is, they'll take fish home and give it out, so at that time, we deliver a lot of fish to friends and family, and I had a little spreadsheet at work of who wanted what, and we would just sell fish on the side, just because that's what fishermen do, and I left that job, I'm mostly just because we were getting ready to have our third child, and it was just time to...
0:27:50.5 S2: With Rich gon, that's part of the fishing lifestyle, it's hard to have a full-time career also and a family, so we moved way out rural and just lived out in the mountains and raised the kids, and Rich was fishing, so he was fishing all through that time and I did that for about four years until we decided to start Case, and basically a lot of the thinking on Cocos... Well, we spend so much time and energy getting fish out to friends and family, let's just... At first, this is the naivety... Let's just streamline that. Unless you get easier. Of course, I built myself a full-time job...
0:28:34.4 S1: Right, so tell us about CAC and what it is. A little bit for our listeners.
0:28:39.1 S2: Well, I'll start with the story if you want to, or we're driving to Thanksgiving out on the coast, and we have a long drive and three small kids, and with my background in food, and I'm always looking at food and talking about food, and I'm saying to... Which he had, he was doing copper river salmon at the time, and he just joined the marketing association, so it's a board of fishermen and people that are helping market copper river salmon. So I start telling, real should do this and you should do that. And my big thing was, it should be marketed like grass-fed beef, it should be marketed like the grass-fed beef farmers are, this is my ranch, and here's how I'm doing this, and then that's how it should be marketed. This is my boat. And here's how I'm catching it. And this is the best for the environment. All these things I'm going on and on and on, and rich as finally turns to me and he says, Yeah, you should... I say, Yeah, you should. And he as no, You're shot
0:29:39.4 S1: You. No, you... No, he's a whole hour of the
0:29:42.3 S2: Car, right. He's like, You should market my fish, and at the time, I was already with my master's degree, part of the Omega reason, part of what I was studying was on board handling techniques, correlating them to sensory what makes it actually takes better. And so I'd already was like, Oh, do this. And you're already like, we really pride ourselves on literally having the best fish you could find, copper River is the best, he's doing the best on-board handling techniques, we put money into the refrigerated seawater system for rapid cooling. We really have put a lot of time and energy in having the best fish, and so he was like, Yes, you should sell my fish. And by the time we got to Thanksgiving, we had the name CNC, which is just my name. It's not that clever, it's just my middle initial is the letter C, so it's just taking... My name is senseless, and taking that letter, see and turning into Sea, and we got to Thanksgiving announced our business and then we did it. That's the amazing part.
0:30:54.4 S1: Right, and so now you catch the fish and then you have a business that processes and ship it all over the country...
0:31:02.7 S2: Yes, and so the processing came about halfway through, so four years into CNC, so we were catching the fish and then we were having it cut at a small local processor, and then we were selling it online, so we sell it on our website and then we ship to people's doors about four years in the small processor went up for sale as they let us know, it was kind of cool 'cause they let us in on it and said, Hey, we're gonna be selling and you guys have this kind of business, it's really taking off. And we'll probably be bought up by one of the big guys with the big guys in pitching is the Trident and the Peter Pan, they have processing facilities everywhere, they're not gonna cut for little guys like us, individual people, fishermen that wanna give them our fish and get our fish back, that's the key, big processors combined, all fish. They don't wanna mess around with, Oh, I like, I sound portions cut like this with my little label on them, it's like, no way. They're not gonna deal with that. And so it came to where, Okay, well, we won't be able to do what we're doing and have control on our fish and be able to sell our fish, and the community will be at a huge loss because if all they have are these big processors in town, this small, incredible fishing community of Cordova, there's no road secret boats or playing these fisherman all the Copperhead over, they wouldn't be able to cut their fish, there's other people like us that sell their catch, people just wanna bring it home, just people wanna eat it all winter and there would be no facility to do that on a small scale, and so that's when we got an investment group together, and
0:32:55.4 S1: We bought that processing facility called at 160 North Sea Foods, and we cut for CNC and we really made a conscious choice at that time, to cut for all the other direct marketers, we know what it takes, we know how to get good quality portions, we know what they're looking for, we know they want their product done exactly how they want it, so we cut for other direct marketers like us, and then we sell through case, so it's really become this one-stop shop, you know this really well... What do people call it? There's a fancy word for it, but...
0:33:33.7 S2: Yeah, just the full year, whatever it, obedient, we catch it, we cut it and we ship it to your door...
0:33:43.9 S1: Yeah, and then in the past couple of years, you started really getting more into the shipping... Warehousing side of the business as well, right?
0:33:51.9 S2: Yeah, from the beginning, we've shifted ourselves and that was a huge learning curve, we could have just had some other big warehouse ship it out.
0:34:01.9 S1: But we... We had some help with that first and we just really weren't satisfied, so basically after the first season, I was like, You know what, we're just gonna figure this out and that... I have kind of a logistical mind and I'm on the ground here shipping, so we just said, Okay, let's figure out how to ship frozen fish
0:34:23.2 S2: Premium and really well to people's door. No question, the best it's got to be frozen, rock hard pros and solid. And how are we gonna do it? And we figured it out, we use dry and we have a warehouse now, and that side of things has also really scaled up, and so now we have eight years of shipping and I have an email, I've sent out a... Last year, it was called PhD in shipping. I was like, I think I've actually... Now, we had done this seven years, and I think I've earned a PhD in shipping, and I've learned it the hard way, and so at this point, we have reached out to other direct marketers and people... We cut their fish, and when you say, Hey, actually we've figured out this part two, we can actually ship frozen fish in people's door and have it arrive frozen and in perfect condition. And we can help you with that too.
0:35:27.4 S1: And I feel like that thought process that you just said of like, Hey, we figured this out, let me help you too, is really a piece of the feminine perspective to... Rather than being like, Oh well, you're fish is competing with my fish in the market place, I'm not gonna help you, I'm not gonna reveal my secrets, you want the complete other direction said, Oh, let's all help each other and then we can all thrive.
0:35:55.9 S2: Absolutely, and that was a really conscious choice because we could have held things a little bit tighter, I definitely... Along the way, and really, we had an opportunity to almost exclude other people, but we just never have seen it that way because it's like in fishing or big family, and we're all fishing wild and sustainable, and to us, it's the promotion of wild and sustainable, and there are so many people looking for this amazing quality fish and that need the stories of real fishing families, how it's taught, how it's done sustainably, that to me, to shut down those stories in that communication would be a shame. I don't think that we're talking to any of the same people, a lot of people out there, I've loved about the all... Many of which most of Acholi to eat fish.
0:37:00.8 S1: So in a moment, I wanna ask you more about wild catfish versus farm fish, and we're gonna dig further into cooking fish in different ways and your recipe, but before we do that, I wanna take a quick break and share a bit more about how women in food is supported. As you the listener, no, I care a lot about food and land, and this includes the success of food and land-based businesses. I believe that sustainability goes beyond the land and how to how we grow ourselves and grow our businesses at the same time, and I've noticed that many folks in the food and land space have fantastic concepts and strong passion and deep care, but still struggle to market and run their business in ways that can make the impact they envision while also providing for themselves at the same time, I always say The most farmers I know are great farmers, but dread or avoid sales and marketing. I'm the other way around, farming has always been my learning care, but I love business and I know how to do it really well, besides hosting this podcast and running my farm, I'm a business coach and having coached hundreds of entrepreneurs from across the world in a range of industries to mindfully grow their business.
0:38:11.6 S1: So if you're listening to this podcast as a food or land-based entrepreneur who's looking to what's the next phase of growth for your business, this kind of coaching could be for you, if you'd like support in this way, go to my website to have a 90-minute session with me, the website is Women in food dot NET, work with Missy. And I'll put the link in the show notes as well. I want every listener to thrive, and particularly land and food businesses to thrive, because honestly, I believe that your business success is our future. Once again, the link is Women in food dot NET work with Missy. We've also had support of two organizations, first, our local y, el Buffalo has been a wonderful supporter of women in food programming almost since the beginning video series in 2020. Did you know that you can search specifically for women-owned businesses on Yelp, Support your local women-owned businesses by visiting them and then writing a Yelp review, download the Yelp app now and use the filter for women owned business. This episode is also brought to you by podcast as a collaboration between race and stir, giving away 100000 to up and coming podcasters.
0:39:23.9 S1: I know how difficult it can be to get a podcast off the ground and keep it going, and this is why I'm excited to have been a podcast winner myself, if podcasting is on your to-do list or you're already a podcast or wanting a little boost, go to Podcast dot com, to stay up-to-date on future opportunities. So Sena, let's talk a little bit more about why anyone should even care about the quality of fish that you're talking about wild seafood and fish versus farm versus what's affordable at the grocery store. Give us a quick download on that.
0:39:56.7 S2: Or give you my quick blindly eat wild, which is really... You have choices when you go to the grocery store, and Why are you gonna make the choice for wild or actively seek it out? Because sometimes it takes a little bit of effort to do that, and so I've come up with four reasons number one, it's just the best, it's gonna taste the best, so it's gonna be your best quality texture, taste, flavor on
0:40:27.2 S1: Remind everyone. This is coming from a scientist who study this stuff.
0:40:32.3 S2: It's not just personal opinion, it's backed by some research with a bit of family bias, a little bit of family by... Go
0:40:43.0 S1: On, that was reason number one, The reason number one, It's just better, it's
0:40:46.8 S2: Just the best... Number two is for your health, so when you have a fish going out into the wild, it has a higher omega-3s, it also has the right ratio, so sometimes you see, we kind of battle with the fish farm industry 'cause they'll spin things certain ways... Oh, hi, Omega 3s. But you want the proper Omega-3 Omega-6 ratio to really be beneficial in your body, and Wild is just doing that all the time. Naturally, you don't have to give it proper feed or feed it, maybe the... They're just going out and coming back with this amazing omega-3s, which are really good for you, but it's also a really good clean protein, so these wild salmon, especially I think if you're a farmer, you can understand the incredible nature of... We're not doing anything. They go out into the ocean, they eat wild, incredible things from nature, and then they come back... It's really awesome. We're not spending water and nutrients on raising these fish, they come back healthy, and they're really a good source of nutrition for humans
0:41:57.8 S1: It... Okay, I have two questions before going on to reason number three and four, so the first question is, give us a brief understanding of what is an Omega... You hear this word thrown around a lot, what is an Amish? We even care about them. Or make it six. For that matter, a Greek letter. What is in America?
0:42:17.7 S2: Okay, yes, thank you. It's a type of fast, so when you hear about fats, a lot of times they're broken up first into unsaturated saturated... We've had a lot of time in our history where we like, Oh, saturated fat is bad. I'm not on that. But they're different, right? So saturated fats come from animal proteins, mostly unsaturated fats come from like vegetables and fish, and so if you just think about it, unsaturated fats are usually not as hard or stick. Right, okay. That's how I think about the area
0:42:56.9 S1: Work with MD who's both Western and alternative MD, and there was a time where he was talking about different oils and like You want a range of oils, like a range of sicknesses and viscosity, 'cause different parts of your body machine. Use them differently, so it keeps your machining well, oil to have the different kinds of oils, I
0:43:19.5 S2: Like that thinking about that and just kind of... You imagine a ticket or you imagine oil, you can kind of see how it would be in your body to all... And then Omega 3s or famous, they get a lot of press because they really are beneficial to our body, and omega 3s can't be made into a Megatron, our body, we have to consume omega 3, so...
0:43:45.7 S1: How are they beneficial? What do they do for us?
0:43:48.0 S2: They reduce the risk of heart disease. So there's a lot of studies around that and heart disease, and that's where the omega-3s help with that, it fights inflammation. And inflammation is huge. Inflammation is the cause of a lot of things in your body. And omega-3s reduced inflammation throughout, they protect brain health. And so a lot of times, you might hear a fish called brain food, Omega-3s are really helpful for the brain, and then they can help with weight control, and I always waited through that research with a heavy like, Okay, let's be sure here, but it helps with satiety and helps with weight control, so those are the top ones, but really, there's lists that go on and on and on, so a lot of people take... People can take Omega-3 supplements, they can be found in some other sources, but it's really big in that is the source of fat in fish... Right, right, right. And even the supplements are probably... Fish Drive. Fish oil does
0:44:57.2 S1: Part. Yeah, even if you're not eating the fish or if you're taking a supplement, you having it from fish and a... Absolutely. Alright, so one reason for wild is it's just better. I love that reason. Second is higher nutrition, is it also higher in other nutrients and minerals...
0:45:15.3 S2: Yeah, it's high in omega 3s, clean protein, high in B vitamins, potassium and antioxidants.
0:45:21.9 S1: Right, cool. Okay, so we have two more reasons out of your top four, and
0:45:26.2 S2: My third reason is for the salmon, and this is kind of thinking, if you're thinking of wild versus farm, things like that. When you think of wild, I know that some people are like, Well, I don't wanna eat the last wild salmon, I'll go for that farm, but I really like to turn that on its head because... Well, for one thing, besides had the largest wild salmon return in history this summer in the history of recording wild salmon returns, which is really, really something... So we're not dealing with the last wild salmon, in fact, the fishing Industry in Alaska, and I will preface this by saying I'm talking always about Alaska, they have sustainability built into their constitution, they've been doing it right for the longest time, and that... There are other places that have issues with fishing, but I'm in Alaska, it is done right, it's done sustainably, and so things like each species is managed differently, but with the salmon, they're counting the salmon returning, there's no nets in the water till there's... Everything is on track. Million pounds have gone through everything for that they're heating the target numbers for the spawn for the next season.
0:46:51.9 S2: So the fishing is really done, the fishing comes next first is next year's fish, then comes fishing, and it's just 100% done like that, there's no fish, there's no nets in the water until that fish has come through in all fishermen on board is completely regulated. And done pretty well at this point, this is surprising to some people that if we just... This almost happen with covid copier was the first open River, and it was like, If we don't go and fish it, if the fishermen don't come out, what can happen is too many fish would return at this point and it would follow the rivers when they spawn and die, it pacified the rivers, and it would cause a four-year ripple effect on low returns. Wow, which is really interesting. So the fishermen of kind of over the hundreds of years, the Sustainable fishing has been kind of built into the fishing ecosystem for wild salmon, which is... I just find it really interesting.
0:48:01.1 S1: Yeah, and that's what I was struck by as I was listening to... Describe that cycle. I'm aware as a farmer to that I'm often thinking much longer business cycles than other businesses, before you even fish this year's fish, you're paying attention to next year's season, and I'm the same way as I'm growing and harvesting this year as I'm already starting to plan seeds and order things for next year's season, I plant things like garlic and onions in November and they don't harvest till the following July, so I'm paying attention to what bed now and how am I gonna prep it in September, and it's like a year long, and then a cure, so it's almost a year-long process, and it's a different way of thinking from the fast-paced environment most of us live in otherwise, bland for me, I don't know if you find this in your family, but for me, 'cause I didn't grow up in farm life, every year that I rest into the farm season and seasonal cycles, the rest of my life slows down to that pace and that way of thinking more and more as well, and... I greatly appreciate it, actually.
0:49:20.1 S1: Yeah, I think just kind of committing to that flow and the seasonality of pieces your life... Yeah, living off the earth somehow leery. Alright, so we have one more. Sorry, were you done with the... No, no, that resonates. Good for the fish. Good for the same in the environment, I imagine the environment around the river or the plant life that everything... 'cause if the water certifies too much... Good for anything. Exactly, exactly. And
0:49:50.5 S2: So you think of fish farming and pens and lights and fish licensed disease, and then you imagine these wild salmon allowed to go out and come back, it's really a much more beautiful process.
0:50:05.1 S1: Yeah, yeah, same. I talk about that a lot with folks around eggs and pulled...
0:50:10.2 S2: Yes, it's very related to the large scale where if you're looking at it, and I feel a lot of times what we're doing for wild and sustainable fishing on our small family fishing boat is like a small farmer doing it just right, doing the regenerative farming and doing that versus whatever you call those places that... Cacao commercial farm. Exactly. Okay, the last reason, last reason for the planet... And so I think that we're basically alluding to it, but when you... And this is to me, when you're making that choice in the store, you know The Wild sanat might cost a little bit more, you are voting with your dollars at that moment, you're saying, This is important to me, wild salmon is important to me, and you're voting with those dollars... And what those dollars do is go back up and say Alaska, it goes back up into that area, it goes to Alaska's paying the fisherman a fair wage is paying for everything, and so you have something like the copper River... Well, there's no deforestation on the entire river and no mining, and why is that? Is because those salmon are so valuable and because people are willing to buy them, pay money for that, that that entire copper River, which is huge throughout the entire State of Alaska, is preserved.
0:51:43.6 S2: Its pristine, it's regulated, it's cared for in a really big way, and if everybody turn around tomorrow and was like, I don't value that wild salmon anymore... I won't pay for that, I won't buy it. That would change... You can just imagine there would be deforestation, there'd be the mind popping up and things like that, and the fact that people value that salon and pay for it is what keeps that pristine.
0:52:15.9 S1: Yeah, and I think our whole discussion where you describe the entire process and all the steps and the work that goes into it, I know to me, I was thinking the whole time, that's why it's costs more because to do it well and do it correctly, and what not... It actually costs money. And these things, the fish, the people, the landscape, the land, the water, you is meant to be honored and respected and favored, and not to... Straight and pillory. Absolutely. Don't
0:52:52.0 S2: Have it again. If it's just straight in ilford, it's gone for good. And if we don't value it, then it goes away.
0:52:59.1 S1: Yeah, I wanna... I feel like there's a tangent I need to ask about... That's a bit of a tangent, and then we'll get into cooking fish and your recipe... You're ready for a tangent... Absolutely, I'm curious, something you haven't mentioned, and I'm curious about what the relationship is with the indigenous community there and fishing together or not, or how that works.
0:53:24.6 S2: Oh, yes, there is a large indigenous community, and often in Alaska, and it's very much combined. There is a fish permitting system, and that's how they regulate for sustainability, so people, an indigenous tribes also have a permit for commercial fishing and send... Differently in different places. I know that Washington State does some different things, but in Alaska, if you're talking commercial fishing, they have a permit and then it's regulated by permit, and it's very integrated, and we fish alongside a lot of indigenous tribal members, partially community. It's very combined. And then in the state of Alaska, there's also residents, indigenous or not residents of Alaska, they can fish, they have a certain sustenance fishing, so they're allowed to catch for their freezers are loud. Their sustenance fishing. So even if there's closures, there might be a certain amount... They're allowed a certain amount of fish for their... To live off of... And so that's really important in Alaska, and that's for everybody, all residents, but just kind of honoring People's Heritage that this isn't just a commercial, this isn't just industry, this is how people live.
0:54:51.7 S1: And does that... How does that play into what you and your husband have created there in particular, as we really...
0:54:58.8 S2: We also, it does... We cut fish for people's assessed ante catch as well for
0:55:06.3 S1: Their
0:55:07.2 S2: Freezers and things like that, so it allows people to put up fish for their freezers and then they can't sell that fish, so that's really clear and it's really important to honor that system. So we'll cut that fish and put not for sale, it needs to be kept separate, because there's times when the commercial fishing industry cannot catch, say copper River king, it's closed, they're waiting for the target numbers, and at that time, the sky is the limit on the price if you had a copy River King, you could sell it for a lot of money. But
0:55:46.0 S1: People are allowed to go out and catch it for themselves, for their eyes...
0:55:50.0 S2: For their freezer. So it's really important when we process that fish that that has separated, we label especially not for sale, and that's going into people's freezers.
0:56:00.9 S1: Do you run into attentions at all between the indigenous and non-indigenous people is fishing on the copper or... Not really.
0:56:07.8 S2: No, not really. I have not run into that in Cordova, it's very... Well, I would say integrated, where I don't feel that there's tensions there because people can do their assistance fishing, and then people are members of the commercial fishing fleet, there's programs where they're bringing fish to elders and things like that, but I sense a lot more tension, we live in Washington State, and there's a lot more tension there around fishing rights, but up in Alaska, I don't send that.
0:56:45.5 S1: Cool, well, that's good to hear. And I love knowing that the sustainability is built right into the Alaskan constitution, and I've heard or read about that recently a couple of times, so I appreciate hearing that, I'd love to see more states and countries put more sustainability right. Into their constitutions. Oh, absolutely. Cool, so when someone's looking to purchase this kind of fish, whether it's from you online, or I know there's a number of online ways to order fish deliver to your door. Besides obviously, the best of the best of copper river, 'cause that's what we've been talking about. What key things and people look for or buying fish in the store, 'cause amenity, some of us can't order online from wason or another.
0:57:31.5 S2: And that's what I think when you're in the store. Fish is so complicated because of the species, and it has become this complicated thing where some people just are so confused, they're so concerned, they're gonna buy the wrong thing, support the wrong thing, support over fishing on accident, that they just really turn away and go pick up a stake. And so I like to keep it really simple and really top of the pyramid is looked for a while to meet... And that's my value system. Obviously, I look for a while, for the four reasons we talked about, and if it's wild, it will say wild because wild is more expensive, they're never gonna market a wild fish as non-wild. And it's binary, it's either wild or farmed. So the word sustainable can be really misused... I know I've seen a lot of farm sustainable, so that's really misused. I would look for wild, and then what I tell people is, Look for Alaskan, that would also probably be on the label... If it's cotton Alaska, it's advertised as Alaskan. And then you know, you have the sustainability piece built in, and just knowing where it's cause it's American, it's regulated, it sustainable, all of those things really are encompassed in that while Alaskan...
0:58:56.4 S2: So if you just look for that, I think you're pretty set. So
0:59:00.7 S1: The salon, there's other kinds of fish that are Alaskan also... What are those?
0:59:05.9 S2: Yeah, well, what we have on our website kind of encompasses what you're gonna find in Alaska and a lot of salmon, and then halibut and black cod, Black Cat is also known as stable fish, mostly on the East Coast, so you'll see it both ways by cod table fish, and then we'll have other kind of white basic white fish, which would be rock fish, sometimes called snapper, Pacific cod in linkage, the main fish, and it's funny 'cause I'm only listing six species of fish, and out of that we have 30-something products because we edit every which way, or Do this or Do that with it, and then you'll find some crab, of course, and sometimes we have Alaska oysters and things like that, and shrimp, there's trip up there too, so depending on the season, you'll find those...
1:00:04.0 S1: Wow, so for different kinds of fish and sea food, you have different boats or you just change the set up on the boat, as I imagine something like shrimp or crab is a totally different process from the... You're describing on fishing.
1:00:16.7 S2: Crab is its own boat, it's a much bigger boat, they fish in the winter, that's what really sets Croat... People that watch dentist catch, that's cramping, it's in the winter, they're dealing with ice and things like that, it makes it more dangerous, and then trimming is different, different here. You can catch shrimp. Just the guys that are out fishing, like if they're on a lay-up between, they go and hang out, they might just be in a bay somewhere and they might put a shrimp pot out and get some shrimp, but commercially it would be a different boat with different gear, and then the white fish is all done long lining with the same gear, the minis, and then the salon is Gillette. It's kind of grouped.
1:01:02.7 S1: Cool, and then as you mentioned that you have so many different cuts, so if someone's new to eating fish, where is the best place to start?
1:01:11.5 S2: We care just bread and butter primary, if I was to say the number one product would be copper River Salmon, and we cut that into a six-ounce portion and it just makes a really nice meal for one person, so I've been... A fishing family usually have whole fish or plays in the freezer and things like that, but I've gotten really spoiled with our portions, it's like they're in the freezer. I go, How many people are in my feeding tonight? I have teenage kids, so I have to plan for enjoyed up and then I grab that many portions out of the freezer, and I am horrible about bringing things out of the freezer in advance... I don't plan meals super in advance, I pull it out the freezer and I put it... Their individually vacuum sealed... Put it in cold water. They deposed while I start the rice.
1:02:05.5 S1: I know, I know, I do that too. So I just wanna say for people listening, I pre-portion vacuum-sealed frozen fish is a great way for last minute, if I didn't defer something in the morning, and now I have a reminder on my phone every single morning, it says, Do you frosting for dinner? And I still forget half most of the time, but grabbing some portions, seven portions and putting a Inaba cold water while I feed the animals and then come back in... It's ready to cook.
1:02:35.3 S2: Absolutely, and that's my big thing, is habit in your freezer, it's there for last minute, I call it fast food, so we're probably gonna go into the recipe anyways, but like our black cod recipe, I call our black fast food. If I'm like, Oh my gosh, I haven't done anything, I don't even know what I'm gonna click. I would just pull some black cut out, put it in cold water, start the rice, and then I can have that in the oven and cooking, it's really as easy as putting chicken nuggets in the Evan...
1:03:06.1 S1: Yeah, by the way, I wanna say, just to get into cooking, key on a little tricks I learned at least with salmon and frosting it that way is once you take it out of the package to dry it super well, that way you get the crispy skin in the pan, if you pan fry it, I find if there's still, if it's still really wet and too much water, then you're gonna get a robbery floppy skin 'cause there's a little steam. So one of my secrets that I've learned over the years now, knowing how to cook cooked fish is to really like how to drive super well, especially the skin side, and the other thing I figured out when I serve it is to serve it skin up, if it's gonna sit on the plate for a couple of minutes, 'cause if you put the skin down, then that gets sucky again as it steams off...
1:03:57.0 S2: Yes, if you're going for that crispy skin, and we could get a lot of different ways, but when you're going for that Chris crispy skin eyes and then serve it with the skin side up, and you'll see that in fancy restaurants and in photos, and it's like... Then you know that's a crispy skin recipe, and that skins meant to eat which it's delicious when done right. People might think of his skin is, If you baked it in the evidence, it's all soggy, it's not good, but if it's crispy and done right, it's malicious in my house, if it saw you like that, it goes to the cats.
1:04:27.9 S1: It's like... They get a really cool... Yeah, I can't even be in it. Socially in River like that it's...
1:04:34.6 S2: No, I don't either. But when it's crispy, it's so good.
1:04:38.4 S1: Yeah, and so before we get into your black cod recipe or table Fisher sp, if someone is at the store picking fish, how can they pick fish that's not gonna be too Fishy, Fishy and
1:04:52.5 S2: Crops the fish quotas, a term that I'm learning in my adult years, which I think just means poor quality, and basically, what makes me nervous is the fish in the display case at the grocery store, and it's termed... It seemed fresh. Okay, I have a whole blog post on this that all the definitions for the word fresh, and it encompasses everything, and often what a store means when they put a little sign that says fresh as they mean refreshed, which means detracted, it means, this was frozen. Now I've defused it in Sada in this case, and to me, I do not understand why fish is done like that because if we sell it frozen and to me, because I've studied the time temperature on fish, if you live near the ocean and you can get it right off of that boat, eat fresh. But if you are depending on the supply chain, you want it frozen as soon as possible, you want it frozen up at the processing facility in their really good freezers at a really low temperature done right. And then you don't wanna be frosted until you're about to eat it, because the time in the refrigerator is ticking away at your quality, so a big watch out for me is seeing that product just sitting in the case labeled as fresh, which to me is mis-labeling and you don't know how long it's sad in the case, it could have sat there for days, it could have...
1:06:29.2 S2: You don't know at what point it was frozen, then you don't know at what point how long it has sat, and I think that that sitting in the refrigerator is what degrades the quality, and then you're getting into fishy fish.
1:06:46.0 S1: And I just like to... I think people don't realize sometimes that you can ask the people behind those counters a million questions, so worst case scenario, you at least ask, When did you depress this? If they just did it that day, and that's what you got available, go for it. If it was like, Well, it's been in the fridge for a couple of days, I would do it.
1:07:06.7 S2: Right, yeah, absolutely. Attend that
1:07:09.0 S1: Make me think that I know... For our listeners, I know often in the store when I've walked into a regular grocery store, which I don't actually do that often, they also like across from the fish counter, see if you counter... There's usually frozen, still frozen fish is... And I often buy those and then the bag says, Wildcat gives you all the details where it's from... I often buy Sam in that way. Well, I'm gonna order from you now see it, but before that.
1:07:37.2 S2: I
1:07:38.0 S1: Would buy that way, and it's in the bag and it's individually portion and it's frozen, it's been frozen, it stayed frozen and it stays frozen until I use it, which is great 'cause you can grab one or two, the baggage leave or six in there.
1:07:50.5 S2: You have it on hand and it's not going and send your refrigerator until you feel like cooking it. I think that there's been this kind of bad rep where people feel like, Oh... Fish has to be fresh. Well, yes, if you're... Yes, if you're in there when I got to fly to see my mom, all I want is fresh fish straight off both... Yes, if you can't see the boat, then I think frozen is the most consistent way to have the premium quality.
1:08:17.6 S1: Alright, so let's say with the frontend piece of sable fish or black cat that we ordered from you, what... You have a recipe that includes some yummy dinger... How do we cook it?
1:08:27.6 S2: Yeah, so this is a recipe way back, my dad fish for black cotton, he was one of the first fishermen to kind of try out this new angle going from halibut to black cat and... We didn't eat a lot of it in the beginning 'cause we didn't know how to cook it. Black cut is really special. It's really high in omega 3, it's really soy. It's unlike other fish that you could over-click, you cannot over-cook black cod because it's so rich and silky get crispy on top, but it'll always be moist in the center, which is incredible. That's why I cook it for a company, 'cause they're like, Oh, you're an amazing chef, and I'm like... I have a secret. So if you wanna make a nice dinner for friends, go for Black Cat is there, it's usually a thicker... It's a thicker cut it... It's not a real thin fish, yeah, it's a nice thick cut, and then what I do is I just defuse it in the water in the package, like we talked about, I agree. Always pat dry really well, and then this is so simple, but I just put soy sauce on it.
1:09:30.1 S2: And then great fresh ginger, and I'll do some fresh garlic also if I have it on hand, but it's really that Sansom garlic in, if they can sit the longest in, not marinate the better. And so if it can sit 20 minutes, great, if he can sit an hour, great, if you don't even have the time, just put it on, and then I bake that in the even really hot... And this is the surprising thing, this is bacon unique, usually you cook fish at a lower temperature like 350, but I took it out, we're like 425, and for full 20 minutes, 20 to 25 minutes, you actually can't overlook it, and then I put it under the broiler so it gives this little crispy on top, and it's so simple, and if you serve that people will be like, Oh my gosh, you should open a restaurant.
1:10:25.4 S1: Yeah, and you usually cook it with a bunch of roasted veggies 'cause they can cook in that high temp of and at the same time, and then you have a whole... Just all in one go.
1:10:33.9 S2: Absolutely, I'm into efficiency and I'm always looking for a family, and I always prepare lots of veggies inside, so I love things, if I'm gonna bake or roast in the oven, I'm gonna be putting it in with a bunch of veggies... Right, and I do like to do a bunch of vegetables with the black cod, the one thing is those Hime, it's so rich, it's not real filling, I mean, it's high satiety, but I like those really hardy vegetables with it as well.
1:11:03.3 S1: Right, so this recipe will be on our website and linked in the show notes, which is also an seen, has got all kinds of fish and Sefer on her website as well. So I wanted to say that. And my favorite way to cook a piece of fish like placed is in a pouch, and there's a fancy French were that is alluding me at the moment, but I'll Tinley slice a bunch of veggies, often like potatoes, Lesley fan, all that kind of stuff. And lay out a piece of tin foil and put on the bottom, put the fish on top and a couple of pats of butter and then seal that up in a pouch and cook it that way, so then everything's teams together and then almost... It's almost like when you open it, it's all liquid and fish juicy and you... All the veggies and everything. It's almost like a... It's almost like a study can dump it into a ball and the fish falls apart, that's my... That.
1:12:01.8 S2: That's really good. Yeah, with fish, especially salmon and how it... It's really about retaining the moisture that's in there, so... That's great.
1:12:12.2 S1: Yeah, yeah, cool, so my last question. Well, two last questions. The first last... Or I guess they're not. One of them is not a last question, my next to the last question, because if there's a woman that's really been an inspiration or influence you...
1:12:30.3 S2: Oh, I like that. I think that we already touched on it, but to me, it's the women in my family, so just my mom and my grandma, and really influencing my life and giving a lot of strength there.
1:12:49.9 S1: I have to say that almost every woman answers that question, every guest answers that question as a woman in their own family, which I love that. Oh, that's really interesting. I thought, I hope that's not a cop out.
1:13:02.4 S2: So it's totally not a cop out, it's beautiful
1:13:06.2 S1: To know that in those ways, like traditions and wisdom passed down through generations and inspiration passes down through generations. So I love that. I tithing that is a very feminine way of being inspired...
1:13:25.5 S2: Yes, I'll go with that. I have this great sign, it was... My husband gave me... That is in the kitchen. It says, Great women raised great women. Who raised great women.
1:13:36.2 S1: I love that. Great women. Raised great women. Who raised great women? I love that. And my very last question is, we talked about so many things, and you gave us such a fish and fishing education, which I so appreciate. Well, is there something you'd love our listeners to be left with or to take away from this podcast episode? Oh.
1:13:57.8 S2: I would say, Just try it. I have a lot of people that they have this sense of trepidation or unsure-ness around fish, and I would say just go for it and try it. Like we mentioned, if you have it in the freezer, you'll eat more of it, everybody kinda has this should around fish always should eat more, and just do it and have it, try it, cook it, and you will get comfortable with it, and it's not as hard as it seems so, I think I just remove the block.
1:14:30.9 S1: Yeah, and it seems like start with Sable fish or black cod because it's very difficult to Destroy it. Yeah.
1:14:36.7 S2: Absolutely. That's what I learned from me to mean my big push... I'm a broken record on this, but get the good high quality fish, because if you have those kind of notions about fish or you have had fish fish or whatever, you get the high quality fish and you will have a different experience.
1:14:57.5 S1: Well, so thank you so much for sharing your stories and your recipe with us, and your fish degree and your history and your wisdom. Thank you for all of it. To all of our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this episode of women in food and got a bit of inspiration for your next meal. A last request, if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're using to listen and give us a reading and review, it's a simple act that helps us a time. Once again, thank you for accompanying me on this delicious adventure, join me around the table for our next episode and to get ready to eat!